tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9237907.post113482544027003503..comments2024-03-06T00:30:08.915-08:00Comments on Secular-Right India: Sepia MutinyUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger29125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9237907.post-65101896762225493282008-03-01T11:39:00.000-08:002008-03-01T11:39:00.000-08:00You might want to have a look at http://www.mutiny...You might want to have a look at http://www.mutiny.in <BR/>And this post in perticular about SM might be of interest http://jacobjoseph.com/2008/03/01/houston-you-have-a-problem/Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9237907.post-1135039540585834432005-12-19T16:45:00.000-08:002005-12-19T16:45:00.000-08:00all in all, a good discussion - levels of mudsling...all in all, a good discussion - levels of mudslinging was not too high so as to obscure all the valid points being made ;-)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9237907.post-1134971635908678002005-12-18T21:53:00.000-08:002005-12-18T21:53:00.000-08:00PR,I apologise for my unsavoury remarks on this po...PR,<BR/><BR/>I apologise for my unsavoury remarks on this post.<BR/>Considering that I do not represent what secular -right stand for (in fact quite opposite), mutineer might have got a false notion, that since I was doing the most of batting (no fault of my own, was stranded in rain :-| ), my view represented of this site, if you feel neccessary please do point out that I do not represent what you have in mind and if you do feel uncomfortable delete my above-mentioned remarks (including this one).<BR/><BR/>Jaffna,<BR/><BR/>I do not mind south - asian word per se, but using it when Pakistan and Bangladesh has made destruction of what India stands for its raison d'etre, I think it is intellectual dishonesty to pretend that problem do no exist or worse only Musharraf/Military/Politicans are to be blamed. <BR/>I said it before and I will say it again<BR/>"Idealogy of Pakistan is the porblem"<BR/><BR/>Back To PR,<BR/><BR/>I saw that "updated post", I didn't see any indication that it was updated, it is amusing to hear then, self righteous indignation of "How a decent blogger would have acted".doubtinggauravhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10149344536185812623noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9237907.post-1134902854778929262005-12-18T02:47:00.000-08:002005-12-18T02:47:00.000-08:00Dear Jaffna,As usual, you have said it best. Regar...Dear Jaffna,<BR/><BR/>As usual, you have said it best. <BR/><BR/>Regards.Pankajhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05394328911980876552noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9237907.post-1134885450479218992005-12-17T21:57:00.000-08:002005-12-17T21:57:00.000-08:00manish et al:i missed most of the debate.however d...manish et al:<BR/>i missed most of the debate.<BR/>however did just glance through the posts and noticed something you posted, which may help get my point across. <BR/>i wil confess beforehand that i do not the context of this particular post...and i do not thing it is at all relevant to my point. hope you understand.<BR/>manish - "A very Om-ly Christmas, Krishna for Christmas, Happy Diwahanukwanzidmas"<BR/><BR/> i would love to see the reaction of the "south asian" community, if the sepia mutiny people wish to prove their love for each other, if they simply for the heck of it sub, [prophet] muhhamad for krishna. i.e muhhamad for christmas, etc or muhhamad loves diwali or muhhamad for hannukah etc...you get my drift.<BR/><BR/>my suggestion may seem a bit churlish - i agree.<BR/>but given the futility of the merry go round here...i think this is a great way to put your [sepia mutiny] money, where you r mouth is...<BR/><BR/>and in all honesty, i think you guys as well as us guys understand exactly wht i am getting at.....<BR/><BR/>bestest,<BR/>manavAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9237907.post-1134872512935400522005-12-17T18:21:00.000-08:002005-12-17T18:21:00.000-08:00Manish:Good to see you've acknowledged the serious...Manish:<BR/><BR/>Good to see you've acknowledged the serious problems with your original post.<BR/><BR/>However, you did post the racially charged version -- which reflects your blogs attitudes and can't be wished away simply by your editing some words. Instead of apologizing for your terrible mistake, the decent thing to do, you've chosen to attack us bitterly. That's your privilege, of course, but don't expect very much courtesy from us. <BR/><BR/>Best regards.Primary Redhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16140741949208891119noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9237907.post-1134872364618784252005-12-17T18:19:00.000-08:002005-12-17T18:19:00.000-08:00wow, I snooze I lose!wow, I snooze I lose!libertarianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05258039856928341788noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9237907.post-1134868388356222852005-12-17T17:13:00.000-08:002005-12-17T17:13:00.000-08:00Anonymous:Just so that your really outrageous slan...Anonymous:<BR/><BR/>Just so that your really outrageous slander doesn't remain hanging unanswered, here is what we wrote last year on this blog about the Godhara riots:<BR/><BR/>Some may take comfort in the fact that the victims were minorities, and that, mercifully, they aren't. This would be a cynical and profoundly incorrect interpretation of the issue. First, regardless of their minority status, India's Muslims were born here, their parents and grandparents were born here, and their ancestors lived, died and are buried in India's earth. This alone gives them an equal citizenship -- and a right to equal protections -- as any other Indian. Second, we are all minorities in one way or the other -- some based on caste, others on language, and the rest in countless other ways.<BR/><BR/>Can we be lynched tomorrow for being, say, Brahmins, or Oriya speakers, or NRIs? Would Indians not sharing our specific minority attribute be morally justified in looking away? Can our police ignore SOS calls from us because they speak Tamil and we Bengali? Or because we have lived in New York and they all their life in New Delhi? Where does this madness stop?<BR/><BR/>http://secular-right.blogspot.com/2004/11/pogrom-in-gujarat_28.html<BR/><BR/>Next time you wish to accuse people you know nothing about of bigotry, better read up on what they've been advocating.<BR/><BR/>Best regardsPrimary Redhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16140741949208891119noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9237907.post-1134867699742669052005-12-17T17:01:00.000-08:002005-12-17T17:01:00.000-08:00Anonymous:Your criticism of this blog is outrageou...Anonymous:<BR/><BR/>Your criticism of this blog is outrageous. Our views on this blog -- and this blogger's public views via columns -- have consistently opposed the bigotry of India's religious Right.<BR/><BR/>View of commenters are their own -- with some we agree, with some we don't. We ourselves have never written one word that can be construed as religious or racial intolerance. Never.<BR/><BR/>We do think, however, that not only Pakistan & Bangladesh but also Nepal (predominantly Hindu) & Sri Lanka (predominantly Buddhist) are failed/failing states, representing a threat to India -- hence, we have been consistently hawkish on how India should deal with them. We stand by our views, none of which have anything to do with bigotry. Only people lacking political sophistication would construe our views as you have done.<BR/><BR/>You and your ilk have little knowledge of what we've written here, yet you slander our name -- this is precisely the kind of garbage you'd expect from readers of the naive and the racially offensive Sepia Mutiny.<BR/><BR/>Best regards.Primary Redhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16140741949208891119noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9237907.post-1134865640564635162005-12-17T16:27:00.000-08:002005-12-17T16:27:00.000-08:00Anonymous MutineerYes ignorance is bliss,Especiall...Anonymous Mutineer<BR/><BR/>Yes ignorance is bliss,<BR/>Especially when it allows you to make unqualified assertions.<BR/>Do enjoy your west punjabi friends.<BR/>Just do not call Indians, south asians , are we level bro ?<BR/><BR/>Regardsdoubtinggauravhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10149344536185812623noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9237907.post-1134865275118474542005-12-17T16:21:00.000-08:002005-12-17T16:21:00.000-08:00I am from eastern punjab and living in US. I am mo...I am from eastern punjab and living in US. I am more comortable interacting with my western punjabi (pakistani) friends than with my Hindi speaking/non-hindi speaking Indian friends.<BR/><BR/>I think trying to seperate Indian culture from Pakistani and Bangladeshi culture is disingenous of this blog which names itself secular right India. It seems your only problem with Pakistan and Bangladesh is that they are Muslim states and I am assuming you feel the same about Indian muslims too!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9237907.post-1134865093685164522005-12-17T16:18:00.000-08:002005-12-17T16:18:00.000-08:00TMB,You do possess foresight.Yes I lash out and ac...TMB,<BR/><BR/>You do possess foresight.<BR/><BR/>Yes I lash out and accuse of drug use (By the way considering the typical mutineer level of humour why so much touchiness at mention of dope, is it too sacred)<BR/><BR/>By the way has RSS wallah/Hindu fundies started stalking you yet ? <BR/>And how soon are you coming with a bestseller describing your ordeal with fascist Hindus<BR/><BR/>Regardsdoubtinggauravhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10149344536185812623noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9237907.post-1134864663928436892005-12-17T16:11:00.000-08:002005-12-17T16:11:00.000-08:00"India itself is built on these 'false identities,..."India itself is built on these 'false identities,' i.e. cultural fusion at borders and subculture creation. Every single thing you cherish and think to be 'original' was at one point a bastard fusion of other elements."<BR/><BR/>Fusion doesn't mean false, India progressed by internalising and harmonising diverse identities,<BR/>South Asian is false identity because Pakistan is based on not - India- ism as much as you pretend to ignore.<BR/><BR/>"Which is why Pakistanis no longer eat roti, speak Punjabi or physically resemble Indians. At the stroke of midnight, they looked like Martians."<BR/><BR/>I thought it was about culture not about skin colour. Language and rotis didn't stop creation of Pakistan, why use it now ?<BR/><BR/>" wrote 'Pakistan's military,' not Musharraf. Pakistani military - U.S. and Pakistani military - jihadis are long-standing relationships."<BR/><BR/>Yes Pakistani ki Awam is sooo in favour of Indo-Pak laila - majnu affair it is this pesky military which is acting like a villain in this love story, how cute !<BR/><BR/><BR/>"It may have escaped you that Sepia Mutiny focuses on 2nd genners. But I expect nothing more from a guy who attempts a flame without even getting straight the intended target's politics. The one Sepia Mutiny blogger who consistently defends the Pakistani government is Vinod, the neocon."<BR/><BR/>I dont care on which generation it focuses, the question is of so called South Asian identity, this is your site schmooze with Pakistanis , Germans or Mangolians , just dont try to bind India with Pakistan, not at 1st level not at nth level.<BR/>Americans who are defending Pakistan, (and Vinod must be one of them), will soon be mugged by reality, again !<BR/>Flame! well I regularly post comments on this site, it was you and your sorry bunch which came a'trolling here.<BR/><BR/>"The other day I saw a guy trying to piss into a heavy wind. This is funnier. "<BR/><BR/>That may well be the case, but in pure , unadulterated excretion mutineers win hands down.<BR/><BR/><BR/>Regardsdoubtinggauravhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10149344536185812623noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9237907.post-1134864107824690322005-12-17T16:01:00.000-08:002005-12-17T16:01:00.000-08:00Manish, just give up. These guys have more than d...Manish, just give up. These guys have more than demonstrated that a thoughtful discussion is impossible, just like I originally stated. Their first instinct is to make sure that their Indian identity remains intact above all things. They lash out, label, and apparently accuse people of drug use if they show any tolerance toward non-Indian South Asians. God forbid I should be "Mr. Nice" to a Pakistani or Bangladeshi. Apparently, that would mean that I am obsessed with skin color.<BR/><BR/>Good luck to you all and your analysis and insights on this blog. I am sure all four readers appreciate your hard work.The Elephanthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11068192975435185822noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9237907.post-1134859068497853492005-12-17T14:37:00.000-08:002005-12-17T14:37:00.000-08:00Manish,Dude , I have left the pleasure of ganja sm...Manish,<BR/><BR/>Dude , I have left the pleasure of ganja smoking to enlightened liberals.<BR/><BR/>"All well and good in India, but it does exist in the diaspora."<BR/><BR/>It shouldn't. Either be an Indian or be an American,do not construct false identities just because you feel overwhelmed with WASP identity and conflict with your forefather's identity.<BR/>Whatever India shared with Pakistan or Bangladesh was erased forever in 1947, Pakistan or Bangladesh to me are just neighbours , so smell the coffee and stop chasing this mirage of shared culture .Leave this sibling -wibling stuff to Yash Chopra movies.<BR/><BR/>"I wonder how the Sepia Mutiny bloggers feel about that:"<BR/><BR/>And Terrorism, no it is not of Musharraf doing only, it has been fomented by the state of Pakistan and it is logical culmination of the hatred against India it has internalised since its creation<BR/>Stop weasel wording and trying to sift all blame on the enlightened ruler, <BR/><I>Idealogy of Pakistan is the problem</I><BR/><BR/>"It's a bit rich to be accusing a pan-diaspora site of exclusion when this blog preaches intolerance for those equally as Punjabi to the west and equally as Bengali to the east."<BR/><BR/>IMO this site doesn't preach intolerance to Punjabis and Bengalis, yes it does caution against getting all nostalgic and mushy for past ties with our <I>friendly neighbours.</I><BR/><BR/>By the way nice try to dodge the issue by confusing Indo-Pakistan- Banglasdesh with Punjabi and Bengali identity. May be you should ask your <I>brown brethren, from west punjab/east bengal</I> if they felt so much for their ethnic identities, why did they prefer partition of their states.<BR/>(If you want hint it was to do with "Ummah")<BR/><BR/>Regardsdoubtinggauravhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10149344536185812623noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9237907.post-1134853394581789692005-12-17T13:03:00.000-08:002005-12-17T13:03:00.000-08:00Anjali:We're not sure that our life experiences be...Anjali:<BR/><BR/>We're not sure that our life experiences being different has anything to do with our criticism of SM's post. Surely you agree, that use of racial identities is not a very constructive way to advance debate. This is what SM does.<BR/><BR/>We do not personally believe in any South Asian identity. We've used the expression in our posts only as a geographical reference. However, if you or SM prefers such identification, we have no issues with that.<BR/><BR/>Our problem is SM's obsession with the color of their skin. We hope you'll agree that to be a valid concern<BR/><BR/>Best regards.Primary Redhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16140741949208891119noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9237907.post-1134853174387005112005-12-17T12:59:00.000-08:002005-12-17T12:59:00.000-08:00Anjali,"A back and forth discussion on this issue ...Anjali,<BR/><BR/>"A back and forth discussion on this issue is pointless since there seems to be a fundamental difference of life experience"<BR/><BR/>That's what TMB said and that is how I replied.<BR/><BR/>Regarding your earlier post about billion people having billion opinions, then no one is denying anyone from forming opinion, this however doesnt prevent PR or me or you or anyone else from judging the opinions.<BR/><BR/>Or is it that you are saying that I am preventing you from expressing dissent, because then I can say you are preventing me from dissenting with your dissent and so on and so forth. While this will be amusing to me, it will not be so to PR.<BR/><BR/>My world view that is Pakistan and Bangladesh fomenting terrorism in my country , and terrorism is of more concern to me than existential dilemma of political orientation of 1st generation vs 2nd generation, yes it is a chip on my shoulders and pretty big at that. world view from North Dakota is very much different from Delhi.<BR/><BR/>Regardsdoubtinggauravhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10149344536185812623noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9237907.post-1134852330577613902005-12-17T12:45:00.000-08:002005-12-17T12:45:00.000-08:00Doubtin Gaurav: Insinuating drug use is below you ...Doubtin Gaurav: Insinuating drug use is below you and the art of argument. Are you interested in merely pronouncing your contempt or are you willing to discuss it? Your tone implies a "Do whatever you want" idea, but if that is true, then why question their post on John Yoo in the first place?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9237907.post-1134851989748571872005-12-17T12:39:00.000-08:002005-12-17T12:39:00.000-08:00Manish:So, in your judgement, our identification w...Manish:<BR/><BR/>So, in your judgement, our identification with our country is the same as yours with your race? Nationalism is the same as racism? Please. <BR/><BR/>No where in our writings will you find any racial bias of the sort you are apparently so proud of.<BR/><BR/>Best regards.Primary Redhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16140741949208891119noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9237907.post-1134851545385462012005-12-17T12:32:00.000-08:002005-12-17T12:32:00.000-08:00TMB,Who cares what you think about FOBs, make fun ...TMB,<BR/><BR/>Who cares what you think about FOBs, make fun or not, choose to be called south asians or browns or whatever pleases you.<BR/><BR/>Since discussion is ruled out, continue delving in your make believe "brown power" and keep snickering against "red necks" and "neo cons", that will do you and your liberals much good as it did to flower children.<BR/><BR/>And yes, beware RSS wallahs are watching you and at any moment they will be coming to crush your dissent and make a martyr of you, but thats what most probably liberals aspire for.<BR/><BR/>Keep smoking the pot<BR/><BR/>Regardsdoubtinggauravhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10149344536185812623noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9237907.post-1134851149916896052005-12-17T12:25:00.000-08:002005-12-17T12:25:00.000-08:00TTG provided a link to an anti-south asia post he ...TTG provided a link to an anti-south asia post he wrote. In the comments to that post, he stated that it's very "Indian" to be able to disagree, why can't we do that now? One billion people are entitled to one billion opinions. The Sepians are probably not very impressed with you, either. <BR/><BR/>I get the impression that we are two very different groups of people, from different generations (first vs second) with different histories and thus different priorities. Why would we see self-identifcation the same way? Having said all that, I don't care for hypocrisy. If someone wants to decry generalizations based on an individual, they shouldn't do it themselves. That doesn't invalidate the rest of their ideas though.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9237907.post-1134850716911166292005-12-17T12:18:00.000-08:002005-12-17T12:18:00.000-08:00"I mean why in heaven should Indians go out and ac..."I mean why in heaven should Indians go out and act as Mr or Ms. Nice when Pakistanis or Bangladeshis are not hot"<BR/><BR/>The above comment by doubtinggaurav sums up very nicely why you don't understand us. He CLEARLY has a chip on his shoulder. In America I act as "Mr. Nice" to Pakistani and Bangladeshi Americans because they ARE "hot" on us.<BR/>-AbhiThe Elephanthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11068192975435185822noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9237907.post-1134850425290956922005-12-17T12:13:00.000-08:002005-12-17T12:13:00.000-08:00So amusing. You guys always think that American b...So amusing. You guys always think that American born desis are searching for their "identity," and must be confused. That is the only way to explain something you can't understand. Some of my good friends are Pakistani and Bangladeshi Americans. Those of us born in America don't grow up with a chip on our shoulders. Also I dare you to point out numerous instaces where we make fun of "FOB" Indians. All of us are against this. That being said most of us look down upon Indian Nationalists/Saffronists/RSS sympathizers/Hindu fundies.<BR/><BR/>This all boils down to one simple thing. You don't like the term "South Asian" and we do. Living in India you grow up hating your neighbors (Pakistan and Bangladesh). In America we recognize that the neighbors you dislike are the ones that we have the most in common with. We seek them out, although not exclusively of course. Our lives are better for it. <BR/><BR/>A back and forth discussion on this issue is pointless since there seems to be a fundamental difference of life experience.<BR/>-abhiThe Elephanthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11068192975435185822noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9237907.post-1134847497321960242005-12-17T11:24:00.000-08:002005-12-17T11:24:00.000-08:00Hello PR,While I could not grasp the exact nature ...Hello PR,<BR/><BR/>While I could not grasp the exact nature of the issue which you have been referring to, I would like to say something about the whole "South Asian" idea. <BR/><BR/>This is in reference to TTG's link. "South Asian" if one examines closely, is essentially a racist idea. In India, such a category or an identity does not exist. Most Indians, living in India, would not identify themselves as "South Asian" in any way. <BR/><BR/>It is the Americans or Britishers, who club all brown skinned individuals they see as "South Asians". This categorization essentially denies the unique cultures prevalent in countries that make South Asia and clubs all of them together on the basis of skin color. <BR/><BR/>It is a pity that most Indians, when they go to the west for study/work/recreation, accept this racist slur very willingly without protest. And it is even a greater sorrow that these "Sepea Mutineers" are among them. <BR/><BR/>The first lesson therefore is to have some self-respect and protest against this "South Asian" racist tag. <BR/><BR/>Regards.Pankajhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05394328911980876552noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9237907.post-1134845359908660172005-12-17T10:49:00.000-08:002005-12-17T10:49:00.000-08:00TTG,Yes that pissed me off too !I mean why in heav...TTG,<BR/><BR/>Yes that pissed me off too !<BR/>I mean why in heaven should Indians go out and act as Mr or Ms. Nice when Pakistanis or Bangladeshis are not hot on us either, except for exploting Indian brand name.<BR/><BR/>Regardsdoubtinggauravhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10149344536185812623noreply@blogger.com